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	<title>Comments on: Five days to go</title>
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	<link>http://foundinchina.com/2008/05/30/five-days-to-go/</link>
	<description>Observations about China from beyond the Middle Kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2008/05/30/five-days-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=99#comment-392</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In fact I personally felt the guy was an embarassment on the international stage, combing his hair in front of the King of Spain.&lt;/i&gt;

I hadn&#039;t heard about the &#039;comb&#039; incident. :) 

&lt;i&gt;And just because he did not have a problem with Falun Gong in the first instance does not mean that he was not right to change his mind about them later on.&lt;/i&gt;

Agreed - every politician&#039;s prerogative. 

As for the Epoch Times, the stories they run that require a large dose of salt only serve to undermine the articles that highlight genuine grievances of Falun Gong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In fact I personally felt the guy was an embarassment on the international stage, combing his hair in front of the King of Spain.</i></p>
<p>I hadn&#8217;t heard about the &#8216;comb&#8217; incident. <img src='http://foundinchina.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p><i>And just because he did not have a problem with Falun Gong in the first instance does not mean that he was not right to change his mind about them later on.</i></p>
<p>Agreed &#8211; every politician&#8217;s prerogative. </p>
<p>As for the Epoch Times, the stories they run that require a large dose of salt only serve to undermine the articles that highlight genuine grievances of Falun Gong.</p>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2008/05/30/five-days-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=99#comment-391</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It’s a 5000 years myth. In the history, no matter Chinese or the western, bad guys all did these things.... nazi...CIA...Dalai Lama clique..&lt;/i&gt;

Nazis and the CIA were/are organised groups with a basis in reality. The &#039;Dalai clique&#039; is a figment of someone&#039;s imagination at CCP propaganda HQ and actually refers to an &#039;entity&#039; that doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s a 5000 years myth. In the history, no matter Chinese or the western, bad guys all did these things&#8230;. nazi&#8230;CIA&#8230;Dalai Lama clique..</i></p>
<p>Nazis and the CIA were/are organised groups with a basis in reality. The &#8216;Dalai clique&#8217; is a figment of someone&#8217;s imagination at CCP propaganda HQ and actually refers to an &#8216;entity&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Linan Wang</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2008/05/30/five-days-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Linan Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=99#comment-388</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think this is a fair point, although the beatings, incarceration, and organ harvesting of some Falun Gong practitioners seems unnecessarily severe in the pursuit of stability.&lt;i&gt;

It&#039;s a 5000 years myth. In the history, no matter Chinese or the western, bad guys all did these things. GMD, Japanese, Nazi, USSR, CIA, Communism Vietnam (for westerners), USA (for Vietnamese), South Korean (for N  K), North Korean (for S K), Chinese (for the exiled Tibetan), Dalai Lama clique (for Han Chinese and those in Tibet) ... all fell in the same old pattern. Bad guys are bad in the same non-creative way. 

&lt;i&gt;Btw, Jiang Zemin was a firm advocate of the Falun Gong until he realised they were more popular than he was.&lt;/i&gt;

Really? Jiang should&#039;ve extended his list to Andy Law, Jackie, Jet Li...  
Only Chinese-phobia or CCP-phobia will believe these ill-logic nonsense easily. Do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think this is a fair point, although the beatings, incarceration, and organ harvesting of some Falun Gong practitioners seems unnecessarily severe in the pursuit of stability.</i><i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a 5000 years myth. In the history, no matter Chinese or the western, bad guys all did these things. GMD, Japanese, Nazi, USSR, CIA, Communism Vietnam (for westerners), USA (for Vietnamese), South Korean (for N  K), North Korean (for S K), Chinese (for the exiled Tibetan), Dalai Lama clique (for Han Chinese and those in Tibet) &#8230; all fell in the same old pattern. Bad guys are bad in the same non-creative way. </p>
<p></i><i>Btw, Jiang Zemin was a firm advocate of the Falun Gong until he realised they were more popular than he was.</i></p>
<p>Really? Jiang should&#8217;ve extended his list to Andy Law, Jackie, Jet Li&#8230;<br />
Only Chinese-phobia or CCP-phobia will believe these ill-logic nonsense easily. Do you?</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne (Mongol Warrior)</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2008/05/30/five-days-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne (Mongol Warrior)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=99#comment-387</guid>
		<description>I think some of those stories of torture, organ harvesting etc are exactly that - stories. Even a cursory glance through the Epoch Times shows that this group is more than slightly wacky to say the least. I would not attach too much veracity to their atrocity tales.

Sure Jiang Zemin was worried about the popularity of Falun Gong - but hardly I think because it competed with his own popularity. I don&#039;t think Jiang Zemin was known as a charismatic or popular leader in the first place anyway. In fact I personally felt the guy was an embarassment on the international stage, combing his hair in front of the King of Spain,  

And just because he did not have a problem with Falun Gong in the first instance does not mean that he was not right to change his mind about them later on.

By the way my mother-in-law in Guangzhou was heavily involved in Falun Gong, going to their retreats, lectures etc. She was completely enthused by it. When the ban came down, no policemen called round, no hassles in obtaining a passport, no hassles from her hukou. Just one case to be sure, but I think that 99.9% of former practitioners of Falun Gong did not suffer persecution in any way from the government.

From the White Lotus sect to the Taipings to the Boxers (notwithstanding the justice of the cause of the latter two especially), China has a history of religious sects getting out of hand. For the government to stand by and do nothing would have been a complete abrogation of their duties to the vast majority of the Chinese people.

Even a small probability of the sect causing disruption to social order is more than enough justification for the ban. The suffering of the Chinese people that would be the upshot of social chaos would be of a scale that would be simply unimaginable - and vastly more intractable than the Iraq imbroglio. Economic progress and the stability that all Chinese people have enjoyed these past 20 years simply cannot be put at risk by some nutbar who thinks he has the power of flight and the ability to call up spaceships. 

Rural Chinese can be incredibly superstitious and easily manipulated by charlatans like Li Hongzhi. 
And there are modern-day international precedents in Africa especially.  Just read about the huge problems caused in Uganda by the Lords Resistance Army and other cults.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/682667.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord&#039;s_Resistance_Army</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think some of those stories of torture, organ harvesting etc are exactly that &#8211; stories. Even a cursory glance through the Epoch Times shows that this group is more than slightly wacky to say the least. I would not attach too much veracity to their atrocity tales.</p>
<p>Sure Jiang Zemin was worried about the popularity of Falun Gong &#8211; but hardly I think because it competed with his own popularity. I don&#8217;t think Jiang Zemin was known as a charismatic or popular leader in the first place anyway. In fact I personally felt the guy was an embarassment on the international stage, combing his hair in front of the King of Spain,  </p>
<p>And just because he did not have a problem with Falun Gong in the first instance does not mean that he was not right to change his mind about them later on.</p>
<p>By the way my mother-in-law in Guangzhou was heavily involved in Falun Gong, going to their retreats, lectures etc. She was completely enthused by it. When the ban came down, no policemen called round, no hassles in obtaining a passport, no hassles from her hukou. Just one case to be sure, but I think that 99.9% of former practitioners of Falun Gong did not suffer persecution in any way from the government.</p>
<p>From the White Lotus sect to the Taipings to the Boxers (notwithstanding the justice of the cause of the latter two especially), China has a history of religious sects getting out of hand. For the government to stand by and do nothing would have been a complete abrogation of their duties to the vast majority of the Chinese people.</p>
<p>Even a small probability of the sect causing disruption to social order is more than enough justification for the ban. The suffering of the Chinese people that would be the upshot of social chaos would be of a scale that would be simply unimaginable &#8211; and vastly more intractable than the Iraq imbroglio. Economic progress and the stability that all Chinese people have enjoyed these past 20 years simply cannot be put at risk by some nutbar who thinks he has the power of flight and the ability to call up spaceships. </p>
<p>Rural Chinese can be incredibly superstitious and easily manipulated by charlatans like Li Hongzhi.<br />
And there are modern-day international precedents in Africa especially.  Just read about the huge problems caused in Uganda by the Lords Resistance Army and other cults.<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/682667.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/682667.stm</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord&#039;s_Resistance_Army" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord&#039;s_Resistance_Army</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2008/05/30/five-days-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-386</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 05:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=99#comment-386</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Remember when things go wrong in China, they go wrong in a BIG way. Not dealing with cults in their early stages and you could be dealing with something later that makes Jonestown sound like a children’s picnic.&lt;/i&gt;

I think this is a fair point, although the beatings, incarceration, and organ harvesting of some Falun Gong practitioners seems unnecessarily severe in the pursuit of stability. 

Btw, Jiang Zemin was a firm advocate of the Falun Gong until he realised they were more popular than he was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Remember when things go wrong in China, they go wrong in a BIG way. Not dealing with cults in their early stages and you could be dealing with something later that makes Jonestown sound like a children’s picnic.</i></p>
<p>I think this is a fair point, although the beatings, incarceration, and organ harvesting of some Falun Gong practitioners seems unnecessarily severe in the pursuit of stability. </p>
<p>Btw, Jiang Zemin was a firm advocate of the Falun Gong until he realised they were more popular than he was.</p>
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