No surrender from the French
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has met the Dalai Lama in Poland, despite angry threats from Beijing.
China had warned France that multi-billion dollar bilateral trade deals could be harmed if the meeting with the Tibetan spiritual leader went ahead.
Beijing cancelled an EU-China summit last week which France, current holder of the EU presidency, was to host. Read more.
His Holiness gave us all a timely reminder in a speech a few days ago about the dangers of appeasing tyranny. So it was pleasing to read the BBC article this morning over cornflakes, because the Chinese attitude toward the robed one is petty in the extreme, even by their own tantrum-inclined standards. On this occasion the French stood firm, shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the EU. Good for them.
You really need to be in China to get some sense of the vitriolic propaganda thrown at the Dalai Lama, and the revulsion the people consequently feel for this man and his followers. Only in China. Quite literally; only in China. Such is the nature of the constant media onslaught against the good monk, the only question people stop to ask is “why do westerners love a poor, crazy, splittist champion of serfdom and terrorism?” Beijing’s propaganda department has the answer for them: “Because western governments hate China, want to split China, want a weak China, have fooled their people with anti-Chinese propaganda.”
Stop a Chinese student anywhere in the world and ask them about their views and they’ll parrot the same message drilled into their heads by a thousand state-controlled media and classroom messages. There’s simply no desire to explore such matters further; they’ve been warned about the lies they will encounter in the west. There are always going to be a few diehards that believe the Earth is flat. But an entire nation of 1.3 billion people?
Anyone who believes that this state of mass group think is going to enhance the prospects of a more tolerant and peaceful world as China begins to cut itself an increasingly larger slice of world pie, has veered rather too close to the abyss at the end of their own flat Earth.
Sooner or later, one would hope, the CCP are going to have to allow their populace a deeper and more nuanced understanding of world affairs (both historical and current) than that which is provided by the “what you think is what we tell you” straitjackets presently forced upon the media and the national curriculum.
If not, the silly tantrums by Beijing that drive nationalistic sentiment among Chinese will eventually spill over into something worse. Perhaps the greatest irresponsibility of the Chinese government is that they don’t seem to care if it does. The world could do without another bully at the head of the table, and the only way to prevent it happening is to stand up to it. Vive la France !!
December 8th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I am favorably impressed by the French fortitude in this case. Good on them. Good on Sarkozy. Good on the Robed One.
December 8th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
@ Jay
Yes, it was great to see some Gallic backbone. The Chinese government are ‘business first’ pragmatists, so they’ll soon be back at the table.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Stuart,
Geez, you are still hanging in China, still that cynical and pathetic.
The Chinese government is pretty pathetic too, for being a crybaby, and for targeting the French (why not the Germans, the Americans and the friggin’ Brits?).
Your blog says it is about “living, loving, and learning in China”. Let’ see: Living? Don’t know how you could still be living here given how you much you detest it. Loving? Loving the self-righteous west, even more so than prior to moving to China. Learning? Learning that China is a nation of zombies who are incapable of thinking on their own feet.
Are you Chinabounder by any chance?
December 17th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Welcome back, Pffefer.
How humbled I am that you, one of your country’s top disinformation operatives, should deign to visit this little corner of the Sino-blogosphere.
What a privilege it is to have the almighty blog-spinner of blog-spinners to pop over and put a few carefully chosen words in my mouth.
Chinabounder, you say? Hardly. About to boundoutofChina , though. But don’t worry, the blog stays and I’ll be back.
Anyway, thanks for visiting, and for agreeing that the Chinese government was pretty pathetic to run away because one man spoke to another in a room somewhere.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Count down the d…!
The China will be peaceful.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Do you know the oversea Chinese protested the western biased medias?
I don’t believe Dalai.
If he is a monk, he should stay in the temple.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:09 am
hug – thanks for visiting.
“China will be peaceful”
We all hope so; but it’s too early to be sure. China’s past is not as peaceful as their history books maintain and many Chinese have ill-feelings towards both their neighbours and the west.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:14 am
“Do you know the oversea Chinese protested the western biased medias?”
They protested because western media isn’t state-controlled and gives a different account of issues than your government does.
Or perhaps they protested because in the west they are allowed to express their dissent. Care to try that in Tiananmen Square?
I thought not.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:31 am
stuart-thanks for the reply.
I don’t think China is perfect. But it doesn’t matter. The VAST progress is happening in China. Be patient, step by step. The oversea Chinese protested, but almost all the western medias kept blind, you almost could not find a news about that.
If you really care about human right, you should care about what happened and still happening in Iraq and Guantanamo.
Have you ever read the fulltext of “???????????????”( Memorandum on Genuine Autonomy for the Tibetan People)? Dalai didn’t realize that his requirement is much more than Chinese gov could offer. What he wants is “independence in disguise”. He even daydreamed the “Great Tibet”. I think most Chinese don’t believe what he said.
I have confidence to China. Just count down the death of …
, then China will be more peaceful.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:51 am
I suggest you visit some websites of “Tibetan Gov in exile”. And Compare the content with what they said to Chinese gov and Chinese people.
You will know Dalai is a liar.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:22 am
“If you really care about human right, you should care about what happened and still happening in Iraq and Guantanamo.”
I do. But the examples you cite are freely criticised and debated in the west, which will eventually result in change.
Who in China will petition against their governments role in the destruction of Tibetan culture or the propping up of dictatorships in Asia and Africa?
The answer is none but the very brave, and they do so at their peril because they are raising issues that Beijing does not want in the public domain.
China is a signatory to the Universal Declarartion of Human Rights too, a document that students the world over should have knowledge of. In China the volume gathers a little more dust on the shelf than it does in the west.
December 19th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Do you know Dalai was a dictator in Tibet before 1959? Do you know US(and other western counties) supported Saddam in 1980s? Do you know US supported Manuel Antonio Noriega (and other dictatorships in Caribbean sea and Latin America), and then put down him? Do you know US supported Al Qaida for the anti-USSR? Do you know US supported Franco? Do you know US was one of supporter of South Africa before 1994? Do you know US still supports dictatorships in Mid-East? Do you know US keeps Israel from being condemned in UN meetings?
About Tibet, UK gov said what they did before was wrong and they recognize Tibet is part of China.(Check the News a month ago) No one country challenge China’s sovereign rights over Tibet.
Dalai is not a Lama, he is a politician.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I think it’s normal for one to live anywhere in his country. Americans can live in Hawaii?Native Hawaiian is a minority in Hawaii, needless to say Native Indian in US mainland) , also can live in New York. Chinese can live in anywhere(Tibetans can also live in Beijing etc). Here, I want to mention that Chinese are not equal to Han. Chinese are comprised of 56 ethnics, such as Han, Hui, Manchu, Tibetan, Miao, Bai, Dai, Mongolian……….
I also think Chinese should protect the Tibetan unique culture. But I think it’s difficult to find a balance point between the modernizing and the protecting the tradition. Also some bad traditional things should be abandoned. You know Christianity changed a lot in the past 2000 years and has different branchs today.
Some one does not like Chinese gov. I think it’s normal. I also disagree some policies of Chinese gov. No one gov can satisfy its every people.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:21 am
In response to comment #12, yes, I am aware of the transgressions of other governments. But you can’t justify China’s actions by pointing to the foreign policies of others. And, more to the point, yoy know about all those things because they are reported, debated, and criticised by the countries themselves.
Not so China.
Your list neglected to mention Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan and countless other questionable regimes that Beijing supports to the appalling detriment of rights and living standards in those countries. Now why do you suppose that is?
December 20th, 2008 at 1:29 am
“UK gov said what they did before was wrong and they recognize Tibet is part of China.”
No. What they did was to make official their position that Tibet is part of Chinese territory.
There was certainly no question or statement of being ‘wrong’ previously, because for long periods during the past six centuries, prior to the invasion by chinese troops, Tibet was independent.
The Dalai Lama has never been a dictator or anything like it. He was, as a young boy, at the head of a feudal system that he has no desire to impose on his people should he be allowed to return.
He is absolutely not the terrorist that China says he is.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:47 am
“Chinese are comprised of 56 ethnics, such as Han, Hui, Manchu, Tibetan, Miao, Bai, Dai, Mongolian……….”
And how many of those groups consider themselves, accept at gunpoint, to be Chinese?
“No one gov can satisfy its every people.”
There is no public forum for people’s dissatisfaction and among the minorities you mentioned, particularly Uigyar and Tibetan, any dissent meets with violent repercussions.
Further, and this is not universal, I have detected a sense of superiority among Han Chinese towards the minority groups and little by way of support for their causes.
If Chinese people care about protecting Tibetan culture they can begin by stopping the petty propaganda forced down the throats of Tibet’s children. Then they can set about rebuilding the thousands of monasteries looted, destroyed, and infiltrated with spies since the occupation.
I think we both know that these wrongs are never going to be undone.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:42 am
Stuart—
You missed one thing, why PRC could obtain legal seat in the United Nations by replacing ROC? Because China supported the Africans and
Asians to be independent from European powers. China helped them. So China could obtained the support from these 3rd world brothers.
About Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan, countless other questionable regimes, Firstly, I want to ask what the COUNTLESS other questionable regimes?
Secondly, the China’s foreign policy is Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Principles_of_Peaceful_Coexistence
This is a consistent policy. China does not want to interfere other countries’ policy.
Thirdly, China provided food and money to Darwinism and Burma, China wants to help their people.
Fourthly, do you know how many kids died due to the lack of food and medicine during the economic sanctions against Iraq? I mean the
economic sanctions do no harm to the dictators, but do great harm to the poor people.
Since Iraq war, it’s said 500,000 Iraq people died. But to the west, the 4000 US soldiers’ lives is more important. What a shame.
Give you a video link, I guess you will be shocked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZbp28696Q&feature=related
December 21st, 2008 at 6:44 am
No. What they did was to make official their position that Tibet is part of Chinese territory. ”
What China needs just official position. Foreign countries’ position is important, but not indispensable.
“And how many of those groups consider themselves, accept at gunpoint, to be Chinese?”
I suggest you to do a investigation, if you really so curious. But do not assume a result before you have done a investigation.
“Further, and this is not universal, I have detected a sense of superiority among Han Chinese towards the minority groups and little by way of support for their causes.” From your webpage, I know you are in Fujian. There are some She people live in Fujian. Chinese minorities have some privilages, do you know that? Do Fujian people talk about the relationship between She and Han? Is there ant tension between She and Han? I guess not. All people are just Chinese citizens,who care about that. When I was a college student in Hangzhou, I had a lot of minorities classmates, such Manchu, Hui, and She. No one care about that. When I was a PhD student in Dalian, I had a lot of minorities classmates, such Manchu, Hui, Dawoer, Monglians,Koreans ….(Actually I didn’t know whether there were any other minorities, because it’s not necessary to investigate that.) There are many more minorities in my wife’s universities(Dalian and Shenyang). All people live peacefully.
“If Chinese people care about protecting Tibetan culture they can begin by stopping the petty propaganda forced down the throats of Tibet’s children. Then they can set about rebuilding the thousands of monasteries looted, destroyed, and infiltrated with spies since the occupation.”
Again, Do not assume a result before you have done a investigation.If you have some evidences, you can post here, then maybe I can believe you. There are some bad things happened in Tibet, but do not always classify them to ethnic issues. Those happened everywhere. China is far from perfect. So be patient, step by step.
I will stop the discussion here, hope you enjoy China.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:16 am
Thirdly, China provided food and money to Darwinism and Burma, China wants to help their people.
————————–
A Correction:
Thirdly, China provided food and money to Darfur and Burma, China wants to help their people.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
“Secondly, the China’s foreign policy is Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence.”
China’s stated foreign policy carries about as much weight as the Chinese constitution – just another meaningless document.
So called non-interference is a lie, and anyone who thinks China won’t be fighting a war in the next two decades is naive in the extreme.
“Give you a video link, I guess you will be shocked.”
I would be shocked to find a Chinese who is both aware and critical of the resentment that cheap Chinese imports and labour are causing in Africa, or of the prolonged suffering of people whose despotic governments are propped up by Beijing.
“But do not assume a result before you have done a investigation.”
I’m assuming nothing about Tibet. For one thing I’ve been there and have spoken with Tibetans in their homeland and the monasteries of neighbouring provinces.
Even if you had been there yourself (which I doubt) you would not be trusted enough by locals (as opposed to migrant businessmen) to hear their story. Tibetans are a subjugated people afraid of expressing their thoughts and beliefs openly for fear of arrest, beatings, or worse.
I don’t blame you for only having party propaganda as a source of reference on these issues, but I do blame educated Chinese for blindly believing what is placed before them knowing full well that their government so carefully controls all media output.
China won’t be a responsible country until it can change the collective mindset that believes saving the nation’s face comes before the truth. That mindset has been carefully cultivated by the CCP.
Currently, as we saw with Beijing’s silly rhetorical knee-jerk response to Sarkozy, things are unlikely to change until the Chinese government grow up.
That brings us back neatly to the topic, which is where comments should stay.
March 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
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