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	<title>Comments on: Ocober 1: the morning after from the Granite Studio</title>
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	<link>http://foundinchina.com/2009/10/03/ocober-1-the-morning-after-from-the-granite-studio/</link>
	<description>Observations about China from beyond the Middle Kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2009/10/03/ocober-1-the-morning-after-from-the-granite-studio/comment-page-2/#comment-7565</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=944#comment-7565</guid>
		<description>&quot;he is not reviled as a “splittist”&quot;

Indeed. Nor Sean Connery. He&#039;s always welcome to order a vodka-martini south of the border.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;he is not reviled as a “splittist”&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed. Nor Sean Connery. He&#8217;s always welcome to order a vodka-martini south of the border.</p>
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		<title>By: Froog</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2009/10/03/ocober-1-the-morning-after-from-the-granite-studio/comment-page-2/#comment-7564</link>
		<dc:creator>Froog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=944#comment-7564</guid>
		<description>Well, Pffef, I think Iraq/Aghanistan is certainly enough of an &#039;issue&#039; with British voters that our politicians have to pay a lot of attention to it.

It will probably be one of the reasons why Gordon Brown&#039;s government eventually falls.  It may have been one of the reasons why Tony Blair left office earlier than he might once have wanted to.  And it is certainly the reason why his ambitions of winning the EU Presidency are being frustrated.

Similarly, in the US, public feeling against the wars is so strong that Obama will find it almost impossible to grant the increased troop deployments his field commanders there want.

The impact of public opinion in our countries might be limited, but it&#039;s not the complete non-event it is in China.


On the Scottish independence point, Gordon Brown is circumspect about what he says about it because it&#039;s a political hot potato &lt;i&gt;in Scotland&lt;/i&gt;.  For some years now, there&#039;s been a small-ish but very vociferous independence movement in Scotland, and Gordon wouldn&#039;t want to be seen to be endorsing or encouraging that.

It&#039;s true that in any country there are going to be a few ultra-nationalists who stubbornly resist any perceived diminution of their country&#039;s power or status.  We have those nutjobs in the UK too, sure.  But they are a minority.  For most people, the debate is a purely practical one - what would be the social and economic impact of a split?  England probably wouldn&#039;t be much affected either way (at least, once the North Sea oil reserves are worked out); but Scotland is probably too small and too poor to be a viable country on its own - most Scots, whatever their emotional attachment to the idea of having their own country, probably recognise that it wouldn&#039;t be in their best interests.  And the Scots do now enjoy a considerable degree of autonomy through the Scottish Parliament.

Two things there&#039;s not really any dispute about at all: almost all English people (people of any sense and education, at any rate) acknowledge the geographical and cultural distinctness of Scotland; and we accept that the Scottish people have a right to self-determination, if they should choose to use it.

That does make it very, very different from the China-Tibet situation.

Oh, also, Alex Salmond is a respected, mainstream politician, able to hold public office and travel where he likes; he is not reviled as a &quot;splittist&quot;.  That&#039;s a refreshing change also.

Scotland and England have been under unified rule for over 400 years now - but the possibility of their separating again is entirely &lt;i&gt;thinkable&lt;/i&gt;, and it does not offend anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Pffef, I think Iraq/Aghanistan is certainly enough of an &#8216;issue&#8217; with British voters that our politicians have to pay a lot of attention to it.</p>
<p>It will probably be one of the reasons why Gordon Brown&#8217;s government eventually falls.  It may have been one of the reasons why Tony Blair left office earlier than he might once have wanted to.  And it is certainly the reason why his ambitions of winning the EU Presidency are being frustrated.</p>
<p>Similarly, in the US, public feeling against the wars is so strong that Obama will find it almost impossible to grant the increased troop deployments his field commanders there want.</p>
<p>The impact of public opinion in our countries might be limited, but it&#8217;s not the complete non-event it is in China.</p>
<p>On the Scottish independence point, Gordon Brown is circumspect about what he says about it because it&#8217;s a political hot potato <i>in Scotland</i>.  For some years now, there&#8217;s been a small-ish but very vociferous independence movement in Scotland, and Gordon wouldn&#8217;t want to be seen to be endorsing or encouraging that.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that in any country there are going to be a few ultra-nationalists who stubbornly resist any perceived diminution of their country&#8217;s power or status.  We have those nutjobs in the UK too, sure.  But they are a minority.  For most people, the debate is a purely practical one &#8211; what would be the social and economic impact of a split?  England probably wouldn&#8217;t be much affected either way (at least, once the North Sea oil reserves are worked out); but Scotland is probably too small and too poor to be a viable country on its own &#8211; most Scots, whatever their emotional attachment to the idea of having their own country, probably recognise that it wouldn&#8217;t be in their best interests.  And the Scots do now enjoy a considerable degree of autonomy through the Scottish Parliament.</p>
<p>Two things there&#8217;s not really any dispute about at all: almost all English people (people of any sense and education, at any rate) acknowledge the geographical and cultural distinctness of Scotland; and we accept that the Scottish people have a right to self-determination, if they should choose to use it.</p>
<p>That does make it very, very different from the China-Tibet situation.</p>
<p>Oh, also, Alex Salmond is a respected, mainstream politician, able to hold public office and travel where he likes; he is not reviled as a &#8220;splittist&#8221;.  That&#8217;s a refreshing change also.</p>
<p>Scotland and England have been under unified rule for over 400 years now &#8211; but the possibility of their separating again is entirely <i>thinkable</i>, and it does not offend anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2009/10/03/ocober-1-the-morning-after-from-the-granite-studio/comment-page-2/#comment-7561</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can only assume, pffefer, that you&#039;ve had a very stressful week.

&quot;Don’t give me the british queen shit...&quot;

On the throne?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only assume, pffefer, that you&#8217;ve had a very stressful week.</p>
<p>&#8220;Don’t give me the british queen shit&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>On the throne?</p>
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		<title>By: Pffefer</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2009/10/03/ocober-1-the-morning-after-from-the-granite-studio/comment-page-2/#comment-7560</link>
		<dc:creator>Pffefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=944#comment-7560</guid>
		<description>Stuart,

Give me a f@#$ing break. Don&#039;t give me the british queen shit that nobody in the UK gives a damn about the Scotts potentially seek independence. Even Gordon Brown, a Scotsman himself was treading carefully regarding this issue when he was vying for the PM job. I don&#039;t think he would have been elected the PM if he were saying &quot;sure, nobody cares, if the Scottish people want independence and they have voted for it in a referendum, we will let them be independent&quot;. 

Sure you and the Americans can &quot;voice their dissatisfaction with their own government’s policies&quot;. But I thought you were telling me how your opinions actually matter. I am telling you your opinions don&#039;t matter, as shown in the Iraq and Afghanistan case all along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart,</p>
<p>Give me a f@#$ing break. Don&#8217;t give me the british queen shit that nobody in the UK gives a damn about the Scotts potentially seek independence. Even Gordon Brown, a Scotsman himself was treading carefully regarding this issue when he was vying for the PM job. I don&#8217;t think he would have been elected the PM if he were saying &#8220;sure, nobody cares, if the Scottish people want independence and they have voted for it in a referendum, we will let them be independent&#8221;. </p>
<p>Sure you and the Americans can &#8220;voice their dissatisfaction with their own government’s policies&#8221;. But I thought you were telling me how your opinions actually matter. I am telling you your opinions don&#8217;t matter, as shown in the Iraq and Afghanistan case all along.</p>
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		<title>By: Pffefer</title>
		<link>http://foundinchina.com/2009/10/03/ocober-1-the-morning-after-from-the-granite-studio/comment-page-2/#comment-7559</link>
		<dc:creator>Pffefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foundinchina.com/?p=944#comment-7559</guid>
		<description>Froog,

haha, and you were never selective in your response? Give me a break. 

On what grounds are you saying China might claim Mongolia and Korea? Both mainland China (PRC) and Taiwan Province(ROC) have constantly insisted that Taiwan Province is part of China. Tibet and Xinjiang are of course part of China. And they intend to keep it that way. Has the PRC ever claimed that Outer Mongolia and Korea part of China? Has the PRC ever insisted that they &quot;return&quot; to China one day? 

Of course the Irish detest you people. No doubt about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Froog,</p>
<p>haha, and you were never selective in your response? Give me a break. </p>
<p>On what grounds are you saying China might claim Mongolia and Korea? Both mainland China (PRC) and Taiwan Province(ROC) have constantly insisted that Taiwan Province is part of China. Tibet and Xinjiang are of course part of China. And they intend to keep it that way. Has the PRC ever claimed that Outer Mongolia and Korea part of China? Has the PRC ever insisted that they &#8220;return&#8221; to China one day? </p>
<p>Of course the Irish detest you people. No doubt about it.</p>
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